For the most part, it remains drivel. The same old arguments spun in different ways. Folks who don’t support Randy Shannon spend every ounce of energy they have trying to build a case against the man, while the pro-Randy crowd finds themselves talking to a wall when attempting to prove their points.
Thankfully there are some good posters out there, fighting the case and seeing the forest for the trees. They can admit how far the program fell under Larry Coker and realize the uphill battle a private school like Miami would face, rebuilding against big time state powers with endless athletic budgets and high-price head coaches.
I came across a spirited rant on one of the message boards and felt the need to post here. Its author made some good points regarding Shannon, what was inherited, fair market value (regarding salary), improvement as well as desirability. Read on (edited for content and clarity):
“You dont have to be a mindless follower regarding Randy’s resume. A reply for many of you people who insist on making idiotic comments in an effort to sound like you know whats happening. You’re embarrassing yourselves for no reason.
Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but when you fabricate truths and twist facts to support your opinions, that’s where a problem lies. Take facts and then form your opinion. There is no reason to twist facts to validate your opinions.
For those who insist on saying there is no market for Randy outside of Miami, you are too lazy to look around the world of college football for fear it wouldn’t support your opinion.
Lane Kiffin (5-15 at Oakland and 7-6 at Tennessee) can land a $2M plus incentives contract at USC, Turner Gill (20-30 at Buffalo) landed a $2M contract at Kansas and Derek Dooley, 17-20 lifetime as a head coach before landing the Tennessee job (at an annual salary of $1.8M for a sub .500 record).
Common sense should tell anyone who’s open minded that there is clearly a trend in college football. A trend that shows there are some coaches being hired to big time programs and given big time money with less-than-impressive credentials.
Not only are the credentials less-than-impressive, their resumes all show overall losing records.
Randy’s team beat more ranked opponents last year than any team in the nation except Alabama. Randy’s win/loss record has also increased/improved each of his three years as head coach.
He’s done an excellent job replenishing the talent on the roster, to the point where national college football writers and “experts” feel that Miami is in position to be a team in the discussion for this year’s national title contenders. Are there question marks? Absolutely. But every team college or pro has their share of questions.
Randy’s local ties to South Florida are very attractive to other schools. Imagine Randy recruiting without having strict academics to worry about or imagine him recruiting for a school that didn’t have a “checkered past”, where he could operate a little more outside the lines.
Randy has put together an excellent resume as a defensive coordinator. He has NFL coaching experience, played in the NFL and has made football his life – just like all the other great ones. Bill Parcells. Jimmy Johnson. Joe Gibbs. In many cases it cost some guys their families, but you cannot deny their passion for the game and their job. Employers love that type of spirit.
Randy isn’t Jimmy Johnson, but JJ wasn’t thought of as a great coach his first three years at Oklahoma State, where he went 17-16 and didn’t win his first bowl game until year five as a head coach.
Jimmy lost his first three bowl games at UM – further proof these things take time when you hire a first time head coach or take over at a big time program.
There is zero argument that Randy is a better coach today than he was in year one. Some will disagree, but to imply there is no market for him outside of South Florida, you need to come up with a better argument regarding both him and this contract situation.
For those who still don’t want to believe, a reminder that Randy could’ve been the “coach in waiting” at Texas instead of Will Muschamp, the defensive coordinator waiting in the wings for Mack Brown to step down.
Miami needs to pay FAIR MARKET VALUE for Randy’s new contract. Hell, use the three guys mentioned earlier as the model because there’s no reason Shannon shouldn’t be paid like Kiffin, Gill and Dooley.
It would really be a shame for UM to ruin these past three years of rebuilding. The talent is finally returning and we have reason to excited about this upcoming season.
If this contract isn’t ironed out quickly, the 2011 recruiting class will make the 2010 class look like a Pro Bowl team.”
Our spunky friend makes some strong points, though he went a little over the top at times. Most notably, the ‘head coach in waiting’ prediction. True, Shannon could’ve would up at Texas instead of Muschamp, but that doesn’t mean he’d have been groomed to be the next Longhorns head coach.
Muschamp is a good ol’ boy from Georgia, who did his time at LSU and Auburn (to name a few), before landing in Austin. Without playing the race card, this is Texas we’re talking about and there are only a handful of African American head coaches in the game. Whether Randy would’ve made a name for himself at UT, we’ll never know… so it can’t be assumed he’d be in the same position as Muschamp. (Plus, Muschamp hasn’t gotten the job. Until he takes over, it’s speculation. Big money UT can obviously afford to buy out that contract if need be.)
Other than that, it’s hard to argue his points.
USC, Kansas and Tennessee had zero issue paying their inexperienced, unproven coaches fair market value. Kiffin went 7-6 at Tennessee last year, with some bleeding heart anti-Randy folk actually praising his Lane’s efforts last year for getting the most out of his team… while Randy still takes grief for 9-4.
Gill had some eventual success at Buffalo and Dooley did some good at Louisiana Tech, but both commanded hefty paydays in their first stints at big time programs. (Another guy that could’ve been added to the list was Virginia’s Mike London, whose only head coaching experience came at Richmond – a program former coach Dave Clawson had already turned around.)
Forever lost on Miami’s fan base, the situation Shannon inherited. What was referred to as a “checkered past” above was actually an all time low regarding the modern era of Canes football in 2006. The Louisville logo stop. The FIU brawl. The Bryan Pata murder. A four-game losing streak. A fired head coach – Miami’s first in three decades. A bowl game in Boise on a blue field.
People also forget Shannon’s ability to shine even while the program around him crumbled. Our friend points acknowledges that while Coker’s teams fell apart offensively down the stretch, the defense continued to shine nationally – 6th (2001), 7th (2002), 3rd (2003), 28th (2004), 4th (2005) and 7th (2006) – often bailing out a stagnant offense that couldn’t sustain drives.
For those who lump Shannon in as a holdover who was part of the problem, he’s proven his mettle as a recruiter since taking over as head coach. Coker’s recruiting woes between 2004-2006 aren’t on Shannon. Every coach has their share of misses, but the overall recruiting culture under Coker was in shambles – right down to not even having a recruiting coordinator.
All of this is the polar opposite of what Coker inherited half a decade prior and a much darker situation that Kiffin, Gill, Dooley or London will face in their new jobs – while making more than Shannon.
The buzz has returned around UM. ESPN’s Bruce Feldman compares the talent and depth to what Southern Cal saw a few years ago – again, a far cry from the team that was suiting up punter Brian Monroe as a back up wideout or one that saw starting quarterback Kirby Freeman going 1-of-14 in one of his handful of starts.
Hopefully as this new season gets closer, folks can start seeing the Miami program – and Randy Shannon – for what it is. Personal bias, illogical timetables and overblown expectations – it’s time to let is all go. Appreciate this program’s grown on Shannon’s watch and get ready for another step forward this coming year.
More importantly, enjoy the ride. This is again a good time to be a Canes fan. The last few years were brutal and while Miami isn’t necessarily “back” – regarding this program’s standards – The U is on it’s way.
Keeping fighting the good fight, you handful of logical message board enthusiasts out there.
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Amen. For those who just want to bitch and moan constantly and don't support the team - get off the bus. I admit that after a loss, I am highly critical of what we did wrong, but only because I want Miami to win so badly. I still love the program regardless. I see us taking the next step this season, and Shannon should be acknowledged for getting us there - starting with a well deserved contract extension. You don't let a coach, who has shown nothing but dedication, get to the last year of his contract with no security. Until this deal is done, it will be a cloud over the entire University of Miami family. The football program is the cash cow, and Shannon is being penny-pinched by Holcutt. It's a goddamn shame and this wrong needs to be righted soon.
I just dont understand how some of these "true" hurricane fans can be so anti-Shannon. Its basically because he hasnt won a conference or national championship quick enough, and that's pathetic. Is that really why you feel this guy doesnt deserve higher pay?? I'm tired of telling these canes fans who are anti-shannon all of the great things this man has done to pull our program outta the trenches. They should recognize it for themselves but are too caught up with wanting to go 12-0 every year. Any thing less than that is not worth the attention I guess. Ive argued repeatedly with fellow hurricane fans on the importance of UM increasing Shannon's salary but they feel he's not worth the money. I guarentee you those same "fans" will be in love with him if he has miami competing every year for national titles. Miami made it in the top 10 last year for the first time since '03 and will start the season in the top 25 since 2005. Oh, but that doesn't mean he has earned the right to make more money. What a joke.
LOL.. you're really comparing the jobs done at BUFFALO, La TECH to what randy has done at MIAMI?? come on.. what are you going to compare next apples and key lime pie?
and lane kiffin improved BOTH of the teams he went to in his very first year, more wins than his predecessor at Oakland and UT..(randy shannon can't say that.shoot, it took randy shannon 3 years to get more wins than what his predecessors last season was)
guys like dooley and gill got paid because they did pretty good jobs at schools where 9-4 is a damn good season.. neither of them were at a place like miami, so you can't hold them to the same standard that randy shannon should be held too..does that mean they'll be great coaches? no. but they put in there time and did "good" jobs at their respective schools.. you also can't lower the standard here just because of randy shannon. randy has to win this year.. the division, the conference and the BCS bowl that comes with it. it shouldn't take 4 years to win a damn bowl game at miami..
i'm sick of all the excuses that are made for randy.. they're getting old.. people act like the 7-6 team coker left was a 2 win team, and randy had to reinvent the wheel.. and that we should be ecstatic because "the win loss record has improved every year" GTFOH.. that shiz got worse his first year..imagine if we only won 1 game his first year.. the shannonites would be singing his praises.. " 8 win improvement in only 3 years!!!!" no more excuses, if this guy can't get it done, hire someone who can. or at least give the keys to whipple,he's won before, and we know he has a clue as evidenced by the increase in offensive output in his very first year.. imagine how much better our offense would have been if jacory wasn't punting it to the other team a couple of times a game.
and if randy is such a good defensive coach, how come our defense hasn't been any good in a few years? i mean, there's CERTAINLY no excuse for a mediocre D.. and don't give me the "coker left the cupboard bare" crap.. randy shannon has been dealing with the defensive side of the ball for an eternity now..
More sane fans:
http://eyeofthehurricane.net/wordpress/2010/04/08/randy-shannon-kirby-hocutt-alumni-event-broward/
Superb write up Allcanes. The talent is defintely returning and it won't be long now. Let the haters keep hating...they'll be the same fools jumping on the wagon here very shortly!
Well, this has been an on-going discussion in many blogs for a while ... The bottom line is RS deserve an extension with significant improved payment. I don't see much argument on that. Sure there is always nonbrainers who just want to fire coach without any accountable reason.
But after reading so many discussions (several from allcanes). I feel that you go a bit too much. Paying RS what? at second lowest level in ACC? is something insane given his tremendous effort in turning the program around. But that was his first term, right? That is why the contract is 4 years, not 14 years, and the school need to redo it to reflect what he has done.
In term of Fair Market Value stuff, I don't totally agree. Sure UM needs pay RS better to be fair. But USC/UT paying their less experienced coach whatever amount of money does not mean we have to match with that. Or say, if RS win NC next season, should we pay him like Texas for their coach? I don't necessary agree. It is still up to school's situation. UM is a small private school and we simply do not have lot of money for head coach. This is a known fact for a long time. It is not people don't WANT HC job at UM, it is just UM do not have that amount of money.
I feel more troubled on your words on Cooker. Yes, he might be soft on discipline and that in part leads to the troubles in his late term. But it's wrong (to me) blaming everything on him. The school administration, other coach stuffs are responsible too. I think they have learned it and that is what we seen now (it's not only RS's credit). In term of coaching a football game, I don't think there is much debate that Cooker makes better calls than RS (at this moment). Is he a good recruiter as RS? probably not, but isn't RS also one of the coach stuff? I just don't feel it is right to blame everything on a former coach after he has been fired for 3+ years. The bottom line is that he is good on coaching and he brings U a NC in his first year. He probably should have repeated a perfect season if not a bad call. He made mistakes (who did not), and UM had FIRED him. So why not just wish him well and focus what we have now ...
In terms of now. This is RS's 4th year and the improvement is there, period. But a 9-4 season with a non-BCS bowl (losing) is not something UM fan expect for. The question is always can we make further progress (to 11-2 and eventually to 13-0)? You might call this ridiculous but it is the fact. This is what RS should appreciate for and he does. This is exactly what drives him to work hard and eventually make him a successful coach. I don't feel good with our performance in Orlando (at all). Players in the game have no fire, no desire. Players on the bench is out performed by the cheerleaders. The coaches stand there, look worried, confused, with no adjustment, no anything. If I were a high-school player and seeing that match, I will not like to play for that team. The players does not seem to have fun at all. They just let the game over... With all that been said, who don't have a bad day?
So I think it is really not the time to discuss contract back and forth, but really is the time to focus how we can make a further step. If we can't, the pressure on changing coach would reoccur for sure. So UM, please, offer something that RS deserves and let us move on. Besides, he loves U. That is what money cannot buy ...
X.
"Without playing the race card, this is Texas we're talking about and there are only a handful of African American head coaches in the game."
Ummm.... that's like saying, "Not to accuse you of playing the race card, but you just played it homie."
"Without playing the race card, this is Texas we're talking about and there are only a handful of African American head coaches in the game."
Ummm.... that's like saying, "Not to accuse you of playing the race card, but you just played it homie."
Maybe that wasn't phrased the right way.
My point was simply that African American are still a rarity in the head coaching game (which is a farce) - and the odds of a black head coach at a place like Austin, Texas seems a bit far fetched in 2010, sadly.
LOL.. you're really comparing the jobs done at BUFFALO, La TECH to what randy has done at MIAMI?? come on.. what are you going to compare next apples and key lime pie?
and lane kiffin improved BOTH of the teams he went to in his very first year, more wins than his predecessor at Oakland and UT..(randy shannon can't say that.shoot, it took randy shannon 3 years to get more wins than what his predecessors last season was)
Oakland went 2-14 the year before Kiffin arrived and 4-12 his first season. He was fired year two after a 1-3 start. You're really going to praise Lane Kiffin for "improving" the Raiders? Seriously?
Tennessee went from 5-7 to 7-6 and again, you'll praise THIS, but not Shannon going from 5-7 to 7-6 to 9-4?
Miami bottomed out under Larry Coker in 2006 and had a Bryan Pata-inspired performance to steal the season finale from Boston College, en route to a lesser tiered bowl game, which they also stole from lowly Nevada. 7-6 could've EASILY have been 5-6 in 2006 with no bowl game. or 6-7 had Nevada not given the game away.
5-7 in 2007 was on par with where this program was, regarding what Shannon inherited. Tennessee as a program was in MUCH better shape Kiffin's first year than Miami was in Shannon's first year.
You're absolutely proving you're one of those guys the message board poster above talked about regarding 'fabricating' information and tainting info to fit your story - starting with your "Kiffin improved every team he's been with". A very misleading statement as he went 5-15 with Oakland in just over one season and 7-6 with Tennessee, coming off of 5-7 before he got there.
It should also be noted that Fulmer's 2008 squad ABSOLUTELY underachieved. They weren't as bad at that record.
guys like dooley and gill got paid because they did pretty good jobs at schools where 9-4 is a damn good season.. neither of them were at a place like miami, so you can't hold them to the same standard that randy shannon should be held too..does that mean they'll be great coaches? no. but they put in there time and did "good" jobs at their respective schools.. you also can't lower the standard here just because of randy shannon. randy has to win this year.. the division, the conference and the BCS bowl that comes with it. it shouldn't take 4 years to win a damn bowl game at miami..
... it took the great Jimmy Johnson FOUR years to win his first bowl game at Miami, so what does that tell you?
Guys like Dooley and Gill were paid what they were because both were seen as up and comers who went to bigger money state schools. Tennessee and Kansas aren't afraid to pay. Miami is.
If you compare what Dooley did at La Tech and what Gill did at Buffalo to the turnaround Randy has shown by the end of year three, how can anyone say he doesn't deserve fair market value?
Miami was coming off a PR nightmare after the 2006 season and posted their worst non-probation record since the late 70s - yet Shannon went out to sign the NUMBER ONE RATED RECRUITING CLASS IN THE NATION.
From 5-7 year one to 9-4 year three. This program wasn't even ranked from late 2006 until late 2008. THAT was the dump of a program this man inherited talent-wise.
i'm sick of all the excuses that are made for randy.. they're getting old.. people act like the 7-6 team coker left was a 2 win team, and randy had to reinvent the wheel.. and that we should be ecstatic because "the win loss record has improved every year" GTFOH.. that shiz got worse his first year..imagine if we only won 1 game his first year.. the shannonites would be singing his praises.. " 8 win improvement in only 3 years!!!!" no more excuses, if this guy can't get it done, hire someone who can. or at least give the keys to whipple,he's won before, and we know he has a clue as evidenced by the increase in offensive output in his very first year.. imagine how much better our offense would have been if jacory wasn't punting it to the other team a couple of times a game.
You need to learn the difference between an 'excuse' and an 'explanation'.
Things got "worse" the first year because the program hadn't yet bottomed out, smart guy.
Miami lost Brandon Meriweather, Jon Beason and Greg Olsen - the last slew of FIRST ROUNDERS this program has seen.
How would anyone with a LOGICAL MIND expect 2007 Miami to be BETTER than 2006 Miami after losing three of its best players and NOT having new players to plug into the system?